Saturday, November 29, 2008

Dell Latitude E6500 VID_413C PID_8149

After about 7.5 years, I finally got a new laptop - a Dell Latitude E6500.

Since I previously posted in "No 64-bit Windows for Dell", the situation has improved. See the update there for details, but Dell is now definitely making 64-bit versions of Windows available to their customers, even if not yet available as pre-installed.

Having received my Dell OEM "Reinstallation DVD" for "Windows Vista Ultimate 64BIT SP1", I began the upgrade process. Considering that the system came with an apparently complete set of recovery DVDs and CDs, I wasn't too concerned about wiping the hard drive and starting from scratch. However, as a precaution, I pulled the hard drive and imaged the first 2 partitions, "Diagnostic - DellUtility" and "Recovery".

The recovery partition looked rather interesting. The original partition was somewhere between 1-2 GB, but wasn't even half-full. The copied, compressed image is only 383 MB. According to Dell's documentation, "Dell Factory Image Restore (Microsoft Windows Vista only) returns your hard drive to the operating state it was in when your purchased the computer.". 383 MB seems rather impossible for that task, and probably not enough enough to reinstall Windows, much less any of the Dell drivers or applications. To no surprise, manually searching through the recovery partition didn't yield anything Dell-specific.

I was able to reinstall all the drivers with minimal issues, except one. The main issue is that I don't know what it is! There is one remaining device in the Windows Device Manager that simply lists as "Unknown device", as shown:

All this really shows is that the mysterious device is connected via USB.

Before I reformatted, I worked with the pre-installed image for a bit just to see how things originally were. In hindsight, I wish I would have imaged the whole drive, or for this particular issue, at least taken some "before" screenshots from the Device Manager. The one thing that I do remember, which was a bit of a surprise, was that my system apparently has Wireless USB support, as was indicated by an applet in the notification area (system tray).

As I no longer see this after the reinstall, and since I only have the one unknown device, it would seem that this unknown device must be related to the Wireless USB. Additionally, the Dell Bluetooth device is a "Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth Module with UWB", where UWB is Ultra-wideband, which Wireless USB is based on.

However, none of the Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth drivers (specifically R197543.exe) are recognized as valid for the unknown device.

Looking at the details tab of the device properties in Device Manager, the following details are shown:

Hardware Ids
USB\VID_413C&PID_8149&REV_0100
USB\VID_413C&PID_8149
Compatible Ids
USB\Class_FE&SubClass_01&Prot_02
USB\Class_FE&SubClass_01
USB\Class_FE

The only Google result after searching for the above VID and PID to date is a forum post by "Justin77" on 2008-10-16, where he seems to have the same question: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=4041896&postcount=599. (I'm guessing this will quickly become 1 of 2 Google results for the search!)

The Linux USB Project has a the most comprehensive list of USB Vendor IDs and Product IDs I've seen at http://www.linux-usb.org./usb.ids. This clearly shows that the 413C Vendor ID belongs to "Dell Computer Corp.". While it doesn't currently list a match for the Product ID of 8149, it does show that PID 8140 is "Wireless 360 Bluetooth", and that PID 8142 is "Mobile 360 in DFU". If Dell has any method to assigning their Product IDs, it would seem that PID 8149 should be related to the Dell Bluetooth device.

The listed Compatible IDs, however, seem to hint away from Wireless USB. http://www.usb.org/developers/defined_class lists Class FE as "Application Specific", and SubClass 01 as "Device Firmware Upgrade" - though it lists this next to Protocol 01, where mine is is 02. This also seems to relate to the above 8142 PID - "Mobile 360 in DFU", or "Device Firmware Upgrade".

However, another forum post by "somms" on 2008-11-08, seems to confirm that I should have a "Dell Wireless 410 Wireless USB Device", as shown in the included screenshot at http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=4133796&postcount=21.

Just in case this was an issue with the 64-bit version of Windows, I dual-booted another install of the 32-bit version, and had exactly the same issue. None of the drivers installed there resolved this unknown device, either.

I'm starting to wonder if this whole issue is at all related to "USB mode switching", as was the case with my Alltel UM175AL USB EVDO device.

That's all I have for now. I have an escalated support request open with Dell. Hopefully I'll hear something back during the next week after the holiday weekend is over. Besides resolving this "Unknown device" issue, I hope to find out what the situation was with the recovery partition. I'll add an update here with anything I find out.

In the meantime, time to give Ubuntu Linux a try on the Latitude E6500...

Update (2008-11-30):

This "Unknown device" is definitely a "Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth & UWB Mini-card". User "somms" posted a response at http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=297416&page=3, containing a link to a torrent containing a WiQuest driver. After a lengthy download, I found that "Drivers\Wiquest\Vista\Delwusb.inf" contained the following:

;.------------------------------------------------------------------.
;|      Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth & UWB Mini-card                 |
;'------------------------------------------------------------------'
;       Dell MO9 WUSB HWA

%LOADER_HWA_BT_DESC_DELL%     = WQ_LDRHWA.Dev,  USB\VID_413C&PID_8149
%UWB_HWA_BT_DESC_DELL%        = WQ_USBUWB.Dev,  USB\VID_413C&PID_8150
%HWA_GENERIC_BT_DESC_DELL%    = WQ_USBHWA.Dev,  USB\VID_413C&PID_8150&MI_00

After loading the driver, anything with "PID_8149" no longer appears in the Device Manager. Instead, there are the following devices:

  • "Dell Wireless 410 Wireless USB Device"
    • Hardware Ids
      USB\VID_413C&PID_8150&REV_:513
      USB\VID_413C&PID_8150
      
    • Compatible Ids
      USB\Class_E0&SubClass_02&Prot_01
      USB\Class_E0&SubClass_02
      USB\Class_E0
      
  • "Dell Wireless 410 Wireless USB Host Wire Adapter"
    • Hardware Ids
      USB\VID_413c&PID_8150&MI_00
      
    • Compatible Ids
      USB\Class_e0&SubClass_02&Prot_01
      USB\Class_e0&SubClass_02
      USB\Class_e0
      

So it definitely seems that there is some sort of USB mode switching in effect.

Now, I'd just like to find the official source of these drivers. I can't find anything on Dell's website. While the drivers are listed as from "WiQuest Communications, Inc.", they are Dell-branded - both in the installer and in the application.

Note that WiQuest folded at the end of October (PC Magazine 2008-11-4, EE Times 2008-10-31), which should make things interesting.

The installation provided by "somms" contained the drivers and applet for the WUSB as well as the Bluetooth. However, the driver version for the Bluetooth was 6.1.0.4500 (2008-03-07), where the latest provided by Dell is 6.1.0.4100 (2008-01-31). This makes me wonder if there is a slightly newer version of the WUSB driver available as well.

Regardless, at least now I have the functionality working that was shipped with the laptop, whether or not WUSB is "dead". At least now I can disable the WUSB radio with some certainty and maybe save some power and battery life!

19 comments:

CTJohn23 said...

Thanks Mark! I have been following this post. I recently did a fresh Vista install on my E6500 and ran into the same problem. I am in the process of downloading the torrent. I will be contact Dell on Monday in regard to the availability of the UWB drivers.

What is this USB-mode switching you are talking about? Are you saying two devices share one USB port and need to be switched between?

Mark A. Ziesemer said...

I'm happy to hear that someone else is already benefiting from this information!

Regarding the USB mode switching, see my previous post I mentioned ("Alltel UM175AL USB..."), and the link from there to USB_ModeSwitch. What is happening here may not be exactly the same thing, or at least have a different name, but it's similar.

Basically, the USB Product ID (PID) that is originally visible isn't the desired one. Something needs to happen (a special sequence sent, etc.) to activate additional modes / functionality. In this case, the PID_8150 didn't appear until after the driver was installed.

CTJohn23 said...

I am still downloading...15% right now. I don't know why Dell doesn't provide this driver on their website. Now that I think about it, I didn't receive a driver CD with the comp.

When this mode-switch happens, the pid initally exposed is the mechanism to perform the mode switch, correct?

At any rate, I will review your posts and associated links to understand usb-mode switching. I have never spent this much time looking for a missing driver.

CTJohn23 said...

Mark,

The torrent has not moved past 63% since Sunday AM. Do you know of any other location where I can download this file?

Mark A. Ziesemer said...

Nope. That's why we need to get Dell's attention on this and update their support site with the driver download.

Maybe share a link to this page with them. Maybe it'll help get their attention?

I'll follow-up with Dell in a few days on my support ticket that was supposedly escalated, but I'm a bit busy for now...

CTJohn23 said...

Mark,

The driver is actually on the Dell page.

Navigate to this link: http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R197537&SystemID=LAT_E6500&servicetag=&os=WW1&osl=en&deviceid=16165&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=2&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=5&fileid=273063

I found this by expanding the Network node from the tree on the drive page, and click on "Wireless 410 BT+UWB Minicard." Now select "Other Versions" link. Then you will see a link for "Dell Wireless 410BT+UWB Minicard, v.SSP1.4.20.7, A01 (Release Date 11/3/2008). That is the app and driver for PID 8149.

Thanks for your help! Glad I could give back.

Mark A. Ziesemer said...

Thanks for the info! (Nice of Dell to hide it so well! :-)

Anonymous said...

I have a Dell M6300 that had same issue. I went to Dells site and downloaded and installed the wireless Blue Tooth network driver and it did fix my issue as well. Many thanks. This driver was kickin my butt!

Anonymous said...

Please chalk up another successful 64-bit reinstall / "Unknown Device" resolution credit to your blog. Thank you.

With all of the "Dell Control" applications preinstalled, one would assume that a driver update application to see if Dell devices have the current drivers loaded wouldn't be too cumbersome.

Anonymous said...

Mark, read your posts. Very helpful. I did find a driver on the dell site for a Wireless 410 UWB that resolved my driver issue. Dell support was not helpful at all. Thanks for your posts!

Dan

Anonymous said...

Mark... You're that MAN!!! Thank for posting this; like many other, this was very helpful to me too.

Anonymous said...

You all need to download R206450 from dell... its a seperate installer as someone just mentioned. I had to figure it out on my own, dell support couldnt even tell me this!!!

JRobiii said...

Great write up!!!

This was the exact problem that I had with my D830.

I really enjoyed the thoroughness of your journal.

Keep up the great work!

-Jim Roberts

Gene Giannamore said...

Hey Jim, does this mean you were able to get a Dell 410 to work in a Latitude D830? I notice there are 2 Dell 410 modules listed for sale, and 1 is listed for the E series, the other doesn't seem to be specific to any series.
Dell Part# : 430-3091
&
Dell Part# : 430-3165

P Mac said...

I have a team of 3...we are all using Dell E6500 Laptops downgraded to XP. When using USB devices they go in and out of power. We are using a docking station, but the USB ports on those have the same issue. When listening to music the music cuts in/out every once in a while...is there something running causing this? A driver issue for USB? Any suggestions?

Mark A. Ziesemer said...

P Mac - Your best bet is to contact Dell support directly - especially as it could be a hardware issue. The other possibility is faulty power management profiles - set any settings you can find to favor "performance" over "battery saving". A few places to check would be in the Windows Device Manager as well as the BIOS.

P Mac said...

Thank you! I will check these items. Appreciate the help

P Mac said...

Working fine now!
1) I did the following:
Set Windows for best performance which disabled many of the "effects". 2)) Also, disabled all unused areas: Serial, Paralles, eSATA, MediaCard.
3) Enabled Virtual Machine in Bios (not sure what effect this has if any, but figured I'd enable it).

Now, my music plays smoothly and all our mouse/Keyboards function with 0 interruptions. Not sure which aspect actually fixed it or if it was all of the above, but thanks for the help!!!

Anonymous said...

This just resolved an issue I had with a Dell Precision M6400 laptop running Windows 7. Thanks a bunch!