Dell Latitude E6500 VID_413C PID_8149

After about 7.5 years, I finally got a new laptop - a Dell Latitude E6500.

Since I previously posted in "No 64-bit Windows for Dell", the situation has improved. See the update there for details, but Dell is now definitely making 64-bit versions of Windows available to their customers, even if not yet available as pre-installed.

Having received my Dell OEM "Reinstallation DVD" for "Windows Vista Ultimate 64BIT SP1", I began the upgrade process. Considering that the system came with an apparently complete set of recovery DVDs and CDs, I wasn't too concerned about wiping the hard drive and starting from scratch. However, as a precaution, I pulled the hard drive and imaged the first 2 partitions, "Diagnostic - DellUtility" and "Recovery".

The recovery partition looked rather interesting. The original partition was somewhere between 1-2 GB, but wasn't even half-full. The copied, compressed image is only 383 MB. According to Dell's documentation, "Dell Factory Image Restore (Microsoft Windows Vista only) returns your hard drive to the operating state it was in when your purchased the computer.". 383 MB seems rather impossible for that task, and probably not enough enough to reinstall Windows, much less any of the Dell drivers or applications. To no surprise, manually searching through the recovery partition didn't yield anything Dell-specific.

I was able to reinstall all the drivers with minimal issues, except one. The main issue is that I don't know what it is! There is one remaining device in the Windows Device Manager that simply lists as "Unknown device", as shown:

All this really shows is that the mysterious device is connected via USB.

Before I reformatted, I worked with the pre-installed image for a bit just to see how things originally were. In hindsight, I wish I would have imaged the whole drive, or for this particular issue, at least taken some "before" screenshots from the Device Manager. The one thing that I do remember, which was a bit of a surprise, was that my system apparently has Wireless USB support, as was indicated by an applet in the notification area (system tray).

As I no longer see this after the reinstall, and since I only have the one unknown device, it would seem that this unknown device must be related to the Wireless USB. Additionally, the Dell Bluetooth device is a "Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth Module with UWB", where UWB is Ultra-wideband, which Wireless USB is based on.

However, none of the Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth drivers (specifically R197543.exe) are recognized as valid for the unknown device.

Looking at the details tab of the device properties in Device Manager, the following details are shown:

Hardware Ids

USB\VID_413C&PID_8149&REV_0100
USB\VID_413C&PID_8149

Compatible Ids

USB\Class_FE&SubClass_01&Prot_02
USB\Class_FE&SubClass_01
USB\Class_FE

The only Google result after searching for the above VID and PID to date is a forum post by "Justin77" on 2008-10-16, where he seems to have the same question: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=4041896&postcount=599. (I'm guessing this will quickly become 1 of 2 Google results for the search!)

The Linux USB Project has a the most comprehensive list of USB Vendor IDs and Product IDs I've seen at http://www.linux-usb.org./usb.ids. This clearly shows that the 413C Vendor ID belongs to "Dell Computer Corp.". While it doesn't currently list a match for the Product ID of 8149, it does show that PID 8140 is "Wireless 360 Bluetooth", and that PID 8142 is "Mobile 360 in DFU". If Dell has any method to assigning their Product IDs, it would seem that PID 8149 should be related to the Dell Bluetooth device.

The listed Compatible IDs, however, seem to hint away from Wireless USB. http://www.usb.org/developers/defined_class lists Class FE as "Application Specific", and SubClass 01 as "Device Firmware Upgrade" - though it lists this next to Protocol 01, where mine is is 02. This also seems to relate to the above 8142 PID - "Mobile 360 in DFU", or "Device Firmware Upgrade".

However, another forum post by "somms" on 2008-11-08, seems to confirm that I should have a "Dell Wireless 410 Wireless USB Device", as shown in the included screenshot at http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=4133796&postcount=21.

Just in case this was an issue with the 64-bit version of Windows, I dual-booted another install of the 32-bit version, and had exactly the same issue. None of the drivers installed there resolved this unknown device, either.

I'm starting to wonder if this whole issue is at all related to "USB mode switching", as was the case with my Alltel UM175AL USB EVDO device.

That's all I have for now. I have an escalated support request open with Dell. Hopefully I'll hear something back during the next week after the holiday weekend is over. Besides resolving this "Unknown device" issue, I hope to find out what the situation was with the recovery partition. I'll add an update here with anything I find out.

In the meantime, time to give Ubuntu Linux a try on the Latitude E6500...

Update (2008-11-30):

This "Unknown device" is definitely a "Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth & UWB Mini-card". User "somms" posted a response at http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=297416&page=3, containing a link to a torrent containing a WiQuest driver. After a lengthy download, I found that "Drivers\Wiquest\Vista\Delwusb.inf" contained the following:

;.------------------------------------------------------------------.
;|      Dell Wireless 410 Bluetooth & UWB Mini-card                 |
;'------------------------------------------------------------------'
;       Dell MO9 WUSB HWA

%LOADER_HWA_BT_DESC_DELL%     = WQ_LDRHWA.Dev,  USB\VID_413C&PID_8149
%UWB_HWA_BT_DESC_DELL%        = WQ_USBUWB.Dev,  USB\VID_413C&PID_8150
%HWA_GENERIC_BT_DESC_DELL%    = WQ_USBHWA.Dev,  USB\VID_413C&PID_8150&MI_00

After loading the driver, anything with "PID_8149" no longer appears in the Device Manager. Instead, there are the following devices:

• "Dell Wireless 410 Wireless USB Device"
  • Hardware Ids

    USB\VID_413C&PID_8150&REV_:513
    USB\VID_413C&PID_8150
    

  • Compatible Ids

    USB\Class_E0&SubClass_02&Prot_01
    USB\Class_E0&SubClass_02
    USB\Class_E0
    

• "Dell Wireless 410 Wireless USB Host Wire Adapter"
  • Hardware Ids

    USB\VID_413c&PID_8150&MI_00
    

  • Compatible Ids

    USB\Class_e0&SubClass_02&Prot_01
    USB\Class_e0&SubClass_02
    USB\Class_e0
    

So it definitely seems that there is some sort of USB mode switching in effect.

Now, I'd just like to find the official source of these drivers. I can't find anything on Dell's website. While the drivers are listed as from "WiQuest Communications, Inc.", they are Dell-branded - both in the installer and in the application.

Note that WiQuest folded at the end of October (PC Magazine 2008-11-4, EE Times 2008-10-31), which should make things interesting.

The installation provided by "somms" contained the drivers and applet for the WUSB as well as the Bluetooth. However, the driver version for the Bluetooth was 6.1.0.4500 (2008-03-07), where the latest provided by Dell is 6.1.0.4100 (2008-01-31). This makes me wonder if there is a slightly newer version of the WUSB driver available as well.

Regardless, at least now I have the functionality working that was shipped with the laptop, whether or not WUSB is "dead". At least now I can disable the WUSB radio with some certainty and maybe save some power and battery life!

Another Dell PowerConnect 2716, please?!?

Back in April 2007, I purchased a Dell PowerConnect 2716 to replace my dead Linksys 8-port gigabit network switch.

"Web-Managed" (limited) features

The PowerConnect 2716 is not without its issues, nor is it an enterprise-class switch. While marketed as a "managed" switch, it is actually "Web-Manged", and is rather limited compared to a "full managed" device.

While the 2716 doesn't support the VLAN trunking protocol (VTP), there is decent VLAN support once you overcome the limitations of the GUI and the documentation.

By "Web-Managed", they mean it literally. There is no serial port, SSH, or other methods for remote access other than through a web browser. While the web management console on the 2716 makes heavy use of JavaScript, fortunately it works well with and has official support for Mozilla Firefox.

Still a good switch for the price

The price-to-features comparison still makes this a switch to consider. I received mine directly from Dell for <$170, including shipping. Not bad for 16 gigabit ports and some management capabilities. Compare to a "full"-managed switch from Dell that starts at $349 for 10/100 (PowerConnect 3524), or $833 for gigabit (PowerConnect 5424).

Dell sales issues

Now - even considering the above shortcomings - for the price, all I want is another one. Unfortunately, Dell certainly doesn't make this easy. The quickest approach would be to order directly through their web site, bypassing their troubled sales departments. However, I believe I received a considerable discount last time by calling and speaking with a sales rep. Though trying again within the last week, the same process now apparently involves being transferred through 3 different people - an operator, a pre-sales representative, and finally a networking specialist!

Additionally, at one point during my attempt, I was told that prices on previous orders were good for a year. However, I was unable to find anyone that would honor my previous <$170 price. The PowerConnect 2716 currently lists for $202, on sale from $269 - shipping not included. I just have a hard time believing that the price has gone UP on such a mature product.

Additionally, I wouldn't be surprised at a high turnover in employment within Dell's sales department. However, considering the above issues, I was surprised when I emailed the sales representative that handled my first order, and received back an auto reply. He was out-of-office, but apparently still with Dell Sales. Unfortuately, even 4 weeks later, I still haven't received any reply back from either him or his out-of-office contact.

To add a feeling of insult to the entire situation, just after I gave up on my purchasing efforts, I received a "60 Day Notice - Don't Let Your Dell Service Contract Expire" email, regarding the warranty expiration on my existing unit.

Update (2008-02-29):

Just found and purchased one on eBay (using "Buy It Now") for $150 + $15.42 for shipping, handling, and insurance. I'm expecting to receive it sometime next week, but have been very impressed with the seller so far. I've no reason to doubt that it'll arrive exactly as advertised: less than 4 months old, in brand new condition, with the original packaging and all the accessories. Appears to be a better deal than my original purchase from Dell!

No 64-bit Windows for Dell

In my ongoing search for a new laptop, my current thought is to purchase the latest Dell Latitude, a D830. I was quite pleased with my previous Latitude C810, and the D830 seems to meet all my current requirements. My one outstanding concern is Dell's apparent policy to stick away from 64-bit Windows, either XP or Vista.

The only real disadvantages to running a 64-bit version of Windows are finding appropriate drivers, and possible incompatibilities with older software. A MSDN blogger recently describes installing 64-bit Vista on a Dell Latitude D830 without any noted issues: "I thought this would be painful and full of compromises but so far, my experience has been good." The advantages include being able to efficiently use all available RAM, up to 4GB and above.

The problem is that it seems Dell simply doesn't support the 64-bit versions on anything other than their Precision line of laptops. Configuring an M6300 to be roughly equivalent to a D830 seems to involve at least $1,000 added to the price tag, without any real advances in features or functionality.

Hewlett-Packard doesn't seem to have a problem here. Several of HP's Pavilion and Compaq notebooks are offered with either 32- or 64-bit Windows Vista preinstalled.

My biggest complaint is that I'd consider buying a notebook without any operating software or other software preinstalled. I could either put Linux on it, transfer over my existing Windows XP, or if I so decided, buy my desired version of Vista. However, Dell requires all of their computers to be shipped with an operating system preinstalled, and on this model, it must be Windows, and not a 64-bit version.

If I'm going to be forced to purchase a version of Windows with a new laptop, it should be the version I want, and the version that fully supports the hardware I'm purchasing.

Additionally, if a copy of 32-bit Vista were purchased through retail, Microsoft provides an option to upgrade to 64-bit for only a minimal processing fee. Additionally, if the Ultimate edition is purchased, the box already includes both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Unfortunately, this upgrade path is not honored for OEM distributions, such as those installed by Dell.

I'm not the only one facing this dilemma, as a quick search reveals many others having the same issue with Dell. A few selections:

• Windows Vista: Dell & Microsoft Vista Deception (ashekumar/forums.cnet.com, 2007-02-20)
• This is what I got for a workstation... (Robert L. Murphy/blogspot.com, 2007-02-17)
• Offer 64-bit Versions of Windows Vista (jefisher/dellideastorm.com, 2008-01-14)
• Feeling Cheated: Dell's Vista Ultimate DVD doesn't include 64-bit software. (digg.com, 2007-04-20)

Update (2008-11-04):

Though there still appear to many of the same related issues with purchasing a 64-bit version of Windows Vista in Dell's online ordering, the situation appears to be improving. I just purchased a Dell Latitude E6500. It does offer 64-bit Vista, but only in the Business edition. However, according to this thread on Dell's forums, the 64-bit versions can be obtained by contacting Dell Support. If there are any issues, have the sales representative refer to "DSN Document ID: 158098 (Operating System Changes and Operating System Swaps - Dell Global Policy)", 5th bullet under policy, 1st sub-bullet.